From: FatButterfly@lists.dynapolis.com on behalf of Andrew White [awhite2@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 11:36 AM To: Fat Butterfly DTE Forum Subject: RE: [FB] RE: Ariba vs.../Direct vs Indirect procurement Importance: High I would agree with you (Ravi) on your description of what came first as it relates to focus. I also agree that indirect material procurement was mostly neglected for the reasons listed; but so what? The "Internet Era" brought some "content" a great chance to slap a lot of lipstick on their pigs - with web browsers giving users "visibility" into our back-office applications. Simple visibility a la "self service" is one thing; but pinning a strategy on that? No thank you. Duh. The technology leaders of our time nearly missed the real value that the net can bring. They typically and predictable focused on continuous innovations and not discontinuous - as they are harder to "see" and develop. However, we are now at this juncture. P2P (as it evolves in the B2B arena) is the greatest threat to the old client/server/web browser lipstick deal ever. Note that the MP3 file format was around for several years before the music industry even recognized the slightest potential disaster that awaited them. And the legal system has not preserved to some degree the music industry and the artists and consumers are the ones that are losing! Anyway - C1 and Ariba did a great job spotting the riding wave that was leveraging the lipstick era: Net Markets for demand aggregation (buy-side, now e-Procurement) and supply aggregation (sell-side, now e-Marketing). However, back to your points Ravi - for the reasons you list. Battles as they relate to the pecking order will not be resolved by focusing in indirect materials - however good you become at it. So I think we agree in fact. I just love to stir up the pot a little. Winners in this space? Whoever has a demonstrable focus (past, present and future) on direct material procurement planning, optimization and (true) collaboration. Manugistics still have this as core, i2 has moved away from this somewhat - and of course, Logility! And there are many others; but what is core to each company is crucial to understanding their ability to adapt. A lipstick franchise who acquires some core technology focused on direct material planning etc. is not assured success. None of us are I guess. It remains to be seen the real share of IT spending that is for core stuff like this also. Information is contradictory from the analysts thus far... Dark Lord (rising). PS Lipstick on a pig as described here did and does bring some value. Just not the value that means the most. -----Original Message----- From: FatButterfly@lists.dynapolis.com [mailto:FatButterfly@lists.dynapolis.com] On Behalf Of Ravi Sankar Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:25 PM To: Fat Butterfly DTE Forum Subject: [FB] RE: Ariba vs.../Direct vs Indirect procurement Most large companies have tried to handle the problems associated with direct procurement going back 20-30 years. These systems defined as MRP, MRP II and DRP solutions and they addressed the many issues involved in this arena. Many of these sytems were developed in house and there were also many software vendors that developed these systems and many were hybrid engines integrated into in-house legacy systems. So to think that people have recently discovered this area to be the frontier seems a trifle arrogant. The procurement systems that were touted heavily in the last 2 years (Ariba, C1 etc.) developed solutions to solve the indirect material procurement problem which was mostly neglected in most companies precisely because a. it was a rather simple problem, b. not important strategically and c. not worth the time and effort to justify the savings. However, the "new economy" due to the emergence of the "internet" and "web" created new types of organizations and provided interactive computer networks, catalogs etc. that seemed to justify companies investing in this part of procurement to extract savings. I was very skeptical of the valuations of companies in this arena and still am not sure that these are justified unless they make some significant changes in their capabilities. I will defer to Andrew to tout his own horn about how his company is tackling direct procurement and name the competitors who he thinks will emerge in the direct procurement arena. Ravi Sankar Sumitrans Corporation -----Original Message----- From: Griffin, Susan C. [mailto:sgriffin@thomasnet.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:37 AM To: Fat Butterfly DTE Forum Subject: RE: [FB] random notes: Ariba vs Commerce One vs Moai Andrew: A comment like this one deserves more detail. All the conventional wisdom at the moment is saying that direct material presents a logarithmically more difficult challenge. There are those of us who see this as the definite vision of the future, but why at this moment are you taking the bullish position on direct procurement? And who do you like in this space? Susan Casserly Griffin Director of Marketing and Business Development ThomasNet, a division of Thomas Publishing 5 Penn Plaza New York, NY 10001 212-613-3468 Fax: 212-613-3499 e-mail: sgriffin@thomasnet.com www.solusource.com Where Products become Solutions -----Original Message----- From: Andrew White [mailto:awhite2@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:10 AM To: Fat Butterfly DTE Forum Subject: RE: [FB] random notes: Ariba vs Commerce One vs Moai Don't spend your critical, limited dollars on saving thousands when you should be automating your direct material procurement... Dark Lord (rising). -------------------------- This discussion forum is sponsored by Dynapolis Internet Services . Web-based archives are at: http://forums.nmm.com To unsubscribe, send an email to: fatbutterfly-off@lists.dynapolis.com Questions: listmaster@dynapolis.com -------------------------- -------------------------- This discussion forum is sponsored by Dynapolis Internet Services . Web-based archives are at: http://forums.nmm.com To unsubscribe, send an email to: fatbutterfly-off@lists.dynapolis.com Questions: listmaster@dynapolis.com -------------------------- -------------------------- This discussion forum is sponsored by Dynapolis Internet Services . Web-based archives are at: http://forums.nmm.com To unsubscribe, send an email to: fatbutterfly-off@lists.dynapolis.com Questions: listmaster@dynapolis.com --------------------------